Information

Identification-History

For discussions of lace history and lace identification.  You can post a photo into a comment box for a lace you want to discuss.  Bobblin lace history.  About historic lace. Kinds of lace.  Distinguish types of lace.

We can identify a piece of lace for you, but we need good detail.  At least one photo with this kind of detail is necessary.  Otherwise we are just guessing.  A shot of the whole thing is useful because that shows us the style.  Style gives us clues to date and possibly geographical origin.  But we need the detail shot to tell us how it was made.

Members: 123
Latest Activity: on Tuesday

Examples + Resources

PHOTOS   

http://www.laceforstudy.org.uk/ 

Descriptions of several styles of lace - https://www.jeanleader.net/lacestyles/index.html

To compare needle lace, tatting and crochet, Kathleen Minniti's sampler.

My antique lace boards on Pinterest   

http://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/bobbin-lace-antique/ 

http://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/needle-lace-antique/ 

My collection of boards on Pinterest http://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/ 

Jo Edkins lace collection online:  http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/lace/collection/index.htm

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 Bobbin lace    antiquebobbinlace     bobbinlace3     Needle lace    needlelace2 

For recognizing Swedish bobbin lace:  http://elsapetersonsspetsaffar.com/

Tatting     tatting2   tatting3      

Filet lace    filetlace2    filetlace3   filet lace4    Buratto 

Sol lace   sollace2   sol lace3

Knitted lace    knittedlace2     Crochet lace        Irish crochet lace      IrishCrochet2      

TAPE LACE WITH PARTS NOT ALL BOBBIN MADE

Bobbin tape lace  bobbin tape lace 2   

Mixed tape lace-machinetape      Romanian needlepoint lace  

LACES WITH OTHER MACHINE MADE PARTS - net

Embroidery on tulle-needlerun      Embroidery on tulle-tambour        Carrickmacross  

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MACHINE LACES

This is what it takes to make a cloth stitch strip with a machine. I don't know which machine this is. https://www.facebook.com/brooklynlaceguild/videos/1496541547035682/ ;

Chemical lace   ChemicalLace2  chemical lace3     chemical lace4     

See this for a technical explanation of the chemical lace process.

Barmen machine lace        Raschel machine lace     Leavers machine

machine1 (not sure what machine)   

RESOURCES TO START LEARNING HOW TO IDENTIFY LACE

https://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history/page/online-resources 

https://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history/page/6475898:Page:1417 

https://laceioli.ning.com/group/identification-history/page/specific-pages-in-lynxlace 

IOLI.ORG'S RESOURCES

THE KOON COLLECTION

The Koon collection CD is a collection of images from the Eunice Sein Koon
Collection of Lace donated to IOLI by Ms. Koon. Ms. Koon was the editor of
Lace Craft Quarterly and a collector of lace.  It is not related to the
Minnesota collection to the best of my knowledge.  The CD is a series of
Powerpoint slides organized as the collection pieces are numbered.  There
are approximately 100 pieces of various types of lace in the Koon
collection.  Pictures from the CD could be copied and pasted into another
Powerpoint presentation, or the images could be used to request pieces of
lace from the collection for study by IOLI members.  Policy for use of this
lace is described on p. 58 of the IOLI Member Handbook. -- Jo Ann Eurell

LACE STUDY BOX

The IOLI - Internation Organization of Lace, Inc. has a study box of lace fragments that members can borrow.  

(I am searching for a link)

IOLI also has a lending library for members' use

http://www.internationalorganizationoflace.org/library1.html

https://laceioli.ning.com/group/international-organization-of-lace-inc/page/ioli-advanced-study-of-lace

A site with good photos of high quality antique laces: http://www.mendes.co.uk/antique.bobbin.lace.p.two.html ;

Discussion Forum

Normandy Lace Identification 5 Replies

Hello:I am trying to determine what exactly this is and am hoping for assistance.What I know is that the center pieces were from a wedding dress, date unknown. It was cut into pieces creating a…Continue

Started by Rosemary Houston. Last reply by Rosemary Houston on Tuesday.

Machine, Needle or Bobbin Lace? 30 Replies

This is my first post in this group, something I'd love to find out about what type of lace this is.  It appears to be a design possibly hand woven onto a very fine filet net, or it could possibly be…Continue

Tags: filet net, bird net, hat net, square knotted net, net

Started by Jeanne B. Last reply by Jeanne B Oct 28.

Post removed 5 Replies

Post removedContinue

Started by post removed. Last reply by Georgia Seitz Sep 13.

Bedfordshire? 10 Replies

I'm new to the technical side of the lace world, but a long-time collector from charity and thrift shops. I'm having fun trying to ID and date some of my old finds. I'm wondering if some of you with…Continue

Started by Guinevere. Last reply by Lorelei Halley Administrator Aug 27.

Comment Wall

Comment

You need to be a member of Identification-History to add comments!

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on October 26, 2018 at 5:25pm

Thank you, Gabriele. Now we have a whole lot of examples of point ground lace which uses honeycomb or kat stitch ground. So it isn't all that rare.

And Gabriele, your little oval piece is beautiful. But I don't recognize the pattern or its source.

Comment by Gabriele Patzner on October 26, 2018 at 8:06am

Random Stuff:

Joan Blanchard, Malmesbury Lace

"Annie's Pattern", Malmesbury Fan and Honeycomb Ground

Karen Blum, Point Ground Patterns (I)

5, 6, 8, 9, 10

Karen Blum, Point Ground III, Honeycomb 26, 35, 

Elwyn Kenn, Point Ground Lace, Paris Point 78, Honeycomb 84

Elwyn Kenn, Lace, Honeycomb 12, 18,

Elwyn Kenn, Point Ground Patterns from Australia, Honeycomb 21,30, 34

Erdmuthe Wesenberg, Liebenauer Point de Lille, Honeycomb 69

Erdmuthe Wesenberg, Point de Lille-Spitzen aus dem Erzgebirge has plenty of patterns with large areas of Point of Paris and Honeycomb, sometimes paired with Point Ground.

Comment by Gabriele Patzner on October 26, 2018 at 4:42am

I can add from my books about Bayeux:

Potin/Nobecourt LA Dentelle de Bayeux

Honeycomb 34, 48, 58, 66

Nobecourt/Potin Bayeux Lace

Kat stitch 67

Raszewski/Bouvot BLONDES

Font Vitré 109, 111

Fouriscourt/Salvador La Dentelle de Bayeux

Font Vitré 43

Bouvot/Hervieux Symphonie en Dentelle (Polychromes de Courseulles)

Font Vitré 123

Font Vitré is explicitly mentioned as being used as ground as well as a filling for those french laces.

Among the pictures on this site: http://laceioli.ning.com/photo/malin?context=latest

On pinterest, no source identifiable:

https://www.pinterest.de/pin/422071796318914958/

http://defilsendentelles.over-blog.com/tag/dentelle%20bayeux/ - Bayeux Go and scroll, they make amazing lace there.

http://defilsendentelles.over-blog.com/2017/03/jambiere-pour-aller-... a lovely Polychrome

And I have this little beauty and would be glad if someone could point me to designer and maker: 1%20%2812%29.JPG

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on October 25, 2018 at 6:36pm

Alson Asa Jansen, one of our members has posted several photos of Swedish laces. The group is mixed styles. But some may be relevant, particularly flower shapes.

http://laceioli.ning.com/photo/photo/search?q=Swedish

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on October 25, 2018 at 5:33pm

I am going through my books on Bucks point (I don't have any on Bayeux), looking for laces with honeycomb ground. Honeycomb used as a filling doesn't count. Only honeycomb used as the ground counts. Results. Numbers are page #s

Nottinham THE TECHNIQUE OF BUCKS POINT

honeycomb 132,76,        kat stitch 78

Cook INTRODUCTION TO BOBBIN LACE PATTERNS

honeycomb 49 ,24              kat st 83,31

Cook & Stott 100 TRADITIONAL BOBBIN LACE PATTERNS

honeycomb  10,16,39,50,                      kat st 66,96

Stott VISUAL INTRODUCTION TO BUCKS POINT LACE

honeycomb 32                         kat st 38,20

Meta Tonder 33 TONDERKNIPLINGER

73,94,95

Your suggestion that both pieces might be Swedish, well, that is quite possible. Your 8.47.9 in particular seems relevant.

Comment by Devon Thein on October 25, 2018 at 3:02pm

In desperation, I just went through all 905 pieces of bobbin lace in the Met collection claiming to be 1800-1900 looking for pieces with a honeycomb background. Interestingly, there were some that were Swedish, donated by the Society for Women's Work, Stockholm, 1908. The only other one I could find with a honeycomb background was from Northhamptonshire. I am attaching the photos. The one with accession number 08.180.36 is the Northhamptonshire one. 

A honeycomb background is actually quite unusual. Thoughts?

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on October 21, 2018 at 5:47pm

I meant to say also, I think you are right that your piece and mine are very similar. I also think you are right to suggest point ground, 19th c. Point ground laces don’t all have point ground. Some do use honeycomb ground throughout, and some use kat stitch (Paris ground).

The motif shapes suggest a date somewhat later than 1800, which should have (for continental laces) characteristics of what I have been calling “the Napoleonic period”. (My ignorance of art history and its periods is showing here.)

And I think your point about one pair entering at each pin, instead of 2 as we would find in continental laces, is very much to the point. However I would avoid the terms Brussels or Point d'Angleterre for your piece because those terms usually refer to part laces of the 18th c, not straight laces.

http://lynxlace.com/bobbinlacenapoleonic.html

Comment by Devon Thein on October 21, 2018 at 10:53am

Dear Lorelei,

I think that your piece is very similar to my piece. I also think that your piece has a honeycomb ground, like mine, not a Point de Paris ground. The honeycomb ground seems to be most frequently observed with point lace. Is there any reason why this would not be considered a point lace? The way the pairs go in and out is not a typical Flemish way which usually involves taking in two pairs and dropping the weaver.

Regarding Flemish part lace, Santina Levey likes the term Brussels bobbin lace, but I find myself gravitating to the term Point d'Angleterre simply because it is applied to  a very specific era and style and is so mysterious as to its origins that it is memorable.

Yes, it is very hard to come up with any real rules about naming things when they seem to depart from certain established memes. Unfortunately, it is often the case.

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on October 19, 2018 at 6:15pm

Your piece is interesting. It is faintly reminiscent of a lace from my own collection.

I can't quite see what the ground is on your place. Definitely not cinq trous (5 hole), which is another name for old Flanders ground, which has the same sequence of movements as rose ground. Your piece has either Paris ground or honeycomb ground. My example above has Paris ground. Both your piece and mine do not have the feel of something as old as 1800.

From a French language site, called fond mariage

same website, fond a la rose

Possibly Gon Homburg's suggestion of "Flemish" might be appropriate. But I have heard that name applied to part laces of that era. So how do we distinguish those, the part from the straight.

But the real problem is what to call 18th c straight laces which have a regular ground and gimp. The names we use for laces from 1900 reflect different grounds, as well as different ways of bringing new threads into a cloth motif. For laces of that more recent age the differences in grounds are paramount in our thinking: Mechlin, Flanders, Paris lace, Binche, Valenciennes.

But as I understand Santina Levey that area of the world was producing laces using any of those grounds indiscriminantly, and calls them all Mechlin, using that as a general geographical descriptor. So if the date of your piece really is 1800 Mechlin might be the appropriate name.  But the shape of the motifs does not go along with the designs of laces from that era. At that remove of history our sense of style has drastically changed. Those motifs are much more like late 19th c or early 20th than 1800. Here are some links for comparison.

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/antwerp-late-17th-c-straight... 

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/flanders-and-old-mechlin-ant...

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/binche-%2Bvalenciennes-early/ 

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/mechlin-antique-mechlin-gnd/

Comment by Devon Thein on October 19, 2018 at 11:34am

What is this? The information says it is Flemish, Southern Netherlands, ca. 1800. Fond de mariage; outlined with heavy thread suggestive of Mechlin; It is 2 1/2 inches wide.

I don't know that characterizing it as Mechlin is correct. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

 
 
 

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Notes

HOW THE SOFTWARE WORKS

Created by Lorelei Halley Administrator Jan 19, 2012 at 7:07pm. Last updated by Lorelei Halley Administrator Dec 9, 2014.

PHOTOS

Created by Lorelei Halley Administrator Jan 19, 2012 at 7:29pm. Last updated by Lorelei Halley Administrator Sep 2, 2014.

How to Post a Long Article

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