Comment

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on June 17, 2012 at 3:37pm

Genoese bobbin lace, accession #   1920.1170

http://www.clevelandart.org/collections/collection%20online.aspx?ty...

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1920.1129 filet lacis + Genoese bobbin lace edging.
The edging is simple enough that I think I could copy it and make a pattern from it.

Comment by John Simms on May 11, 2012 at 7:11pm

Dear Ioli, Devon and Paula. Thank you all very much indeed for your help and advice. I must apologize for confusing embroidery with lace. But you have gone a long way to straighten me out.

Ioli, thank you for the comments about Dresden embroidery; I found several examples and can see your point about the different ratio of satin stitchery vs. pulled work. I am amazed that the grapes and small flowers have eyelets - they must be no more than one millimeter in diameter, but I can see how they give the raised appearance to the elements. I understand your comments about pulled and drawn threads and will shortly upload one further photo, better in focus I hope. I have more if you like.

Devon, thank you also. I agree that the Metropolitan example 48.121.2 seems the closest example from the collection they are showing to what I have and thank you for the reference. I checked examples of Appenzell embroidery and several have some of the characteristics of my piece. I will use the Scofield & Zalamea book you referenced, it looks very useful and most interesting. 

Paula, thank you for your reference to Ayrshire embroidery. There are some similarities, clues for me to use in my search for answers. And, Ioli, you are correct in reinforcing for me the nature of the hunt for answers. Devon has, indeed, pointed out the direction and given me some great help, as have you all.

At least, I know now to follow the embroidery trail and not get seduced by the glories of very finely wrought lace work, and I have learned a great deal besides. I continue to be amazed that such detailed and intricate work can be made by human fingers in any reasonable time frame, and it is this that compels me to find out more.

Thank you again for your help and I will keep my eye on your excellent site to see if anyone else has further ideas. Meanwhile, I will continue my detective hunt. What would we do without the internet? John.

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on May 11, 2012 at 12:46am

John, whenever you can find time to look at Devon's link if OK.  I think what she is doing is giving you a clue for how to start identifying a piece of needlework or lace.  Go to a respected authority, such as a major museum or highly regarded scholar, look at the illustrations very very carefully and compare workmanship and style to what you have.  Note the date and origin given for the reference photograph.

It is necessary eventually to learn enough about how the various kinds of lace and embroideries are made, so you can recognize by sight some of the techniques being used. 

Comment by John Simms on May 10, 2012 at 9:46pm

I am really grateful for all these detailed thoughts and associated links. I'll respond this weekend when I have a little more time, but I am most appreciative for all that you are doing for this neophyte. John

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on May 9, 2012 at 11:48pm

24 is pretty close, also.

Comment by Devon Thein on May 9, 2012 at 8:01pm

Vis a vis the  handkerchiefs, did you look at all three pages, 46 handkerchiefs? There were a couple on the latter pages that looked similar, for instance, 24.40.

 

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on May 9, 2012 at 6:20pm

As I understand it, most embroiderers call the stitching with tight tension "pulled thread" or "drawn fabric" (I try to avoid this last one).  "Drawn thread" removes threads in one direction.  "Cutwork" means squares or curvilinear areas of cloth cut out and then filled with stitching.

Terminology is a nightmare in every textile craft, but bobbin and needle lace have worse problems than embroidery does.  And the differences in usage between museum curators and actual practitioners is also a hairy problem.  Drives me nuts.

Comment by Devon Thein on May 9, 2012 at 6:06pm

Again, I am not an embroiderer, but I thought that the problem with this area of terminology was that "drawn thread" could mean either a cut and removed thread or a deflected thread, so, I thought the solution was "deflected thread" versus "withdrawn element". I could definitely be wrong about this, and bow to your authority as an embroideress.

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on May 9, 2012 at 6:05pm

48.121.2 seems to be closest to John's piece, in terms of workmanship and techniques.

Comment by Lorelei Halley Administrator on May 9, 2012 at 6:00pm

Devon, what you called "deflected thread" is what I meant by "pulled thread"--the term used by embroiderers for holes made by stitching with tight tension.  When threads are actually removed, embroiderers call it "drawn thread".

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