I am hoping to learn more about this gorgeous lace collar. I am so impressed when I see the color markings on other posts by admin. I am also so impressed by the amount of knowledge on this amazing site. Thank you to all for your time and for sharing your knowledge.  I sure hope to have half of your knowledge in identifying lace someday. In the mean time I am reading the different posts and the wonderful information shared. I think what is really confusing me is telling the difference between handmade and machine made. This probably sounds silly  but this collar is in perfect condition, I cannot see any issues whats so ever, is that possible? I would love to learn its age and any other information that can be shared. Thank you again so very much. I am hoping that the close up pictures are clear.

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Wow!  Spectacular collar :-)

Looks like a mixed lace - Brussels duchesse, with needlelace details in the big ovals.  The needle lace parts would be worked by 1 or more workers.  Someone probably worked the little buttonhole rings, called couronnes, and someone else worked the ground/net, and so forth, with another person being the joiner and putting that with the bobbin lace pieces.

Again:  Elizabeth Kurella's books, and the LACE book are great resources.  Another neat little book - it's an older publication, but I knew the author, and she was a very knowledgeable collector, is Gabriele de Mestre Pond's book on lace ID.  2 other books to consult are Lace: a guide to identifying old lace types and techniques by Heather Toomer, and Santina Levey's Lace: a history. Pat Earnshaw has an excellent book out on lace ID and history, as does Ann Collier. 

Again, if you want to borrow the books, check your local lace group, or IOLI (if you're a member) for their library holdings, as well as your local public library can help you locate them on ILL.  If they can't help you locate them, contact me, and I will help you locate them in the public library system, so you can make ILL requests.

Helen


Helen,

Thank you so much!! Wow, you are so knowledgeable, I want to thank you for sharing your knowledge and time. Have you been collecting and studying lace for long? Thank you also for all of the great books that you have recommended. I do have one that was my moms, Mrs. Bury Palliser History of Lace. I am not sure if you have ever heard of this book. My mom was a collector and dealer of fine lace and linens for many years and full of great information. She always tried to teach me as she left her collection to me when she passed away a few years ago. I so wish I had taken the time to listen and learn from her. I still cannot bring myself to look at or hold all that she left to me. I purchased 2 large containers of wonderful lace from a dealer several months ago. I have been trying to learn and research all that was in her collection. I am so happy that I found this site and all of the wonderful people on it. I am also still amazed with the condition of this lace collar, its is in wonderful condition for its age, I am sure it has to be pretty old. I am not sure what ILL stands for. Thank you again. I hope your are enjoying your Sunday.

Lorene


Helen Bell said:

Wow!  Spectacular collar :-)

Looks like a mixed lace - Brussels duchesse, with needlelace details in the big ovals.  The needle lace parts would be worked by 1 or more workers.  Someone probably worked the little buttonhole rings, called couronnes, and someone else worked the ground/net, and so forth, with another person being the joiner and putting that with the bobbin lace pieces.

Again:  Elizabeth Kurella's books, and the LACE book are great resources.  Another neat little book - it's an older publication, but I knew the author, and she was a very knowledgeable collector, is Gabriele de Mestre Pond's book on lace ID.  2 other books to consult are Lace: a guide to identifying old lace types and techniques by Heather Toomer, and Santina Levey's Lace: a history. Pat Earnshaw has an excellent book out on lace ID and history, as does Ann Collier. 

Again, if you want to borrow the books, check your local lace group, or IOLI (if you're a member) for their library holdings, as well as your local public library can help you locate them on ILL.  If they can't help you locate them, contact me, and I will help you locate them in the public library system, so you can make ILL requests.

Helen



Lorene said:

I've been making lace for a smidge over 40 years, and have learnt a lot along the way from some very good Collectors and teachers as I've collected pieces and also photographed old pieces and studied them.  Machine laces are not my forte, though.

ILL is Inter Library Loan.  It's a system amongst the libraries whereby a patron can borrow a book from a library outside of their own public library system, sometimes for free, sometimes there is a small charge, depending on the lending library and borrowing library.

Yes, I know Mrs Palliser's book quite well.  Generally speaking it's OK, but we know more now, and there are some things that are now disputed.  You can't go wrong with the Pat Earnshaw books, nor the other references I gave you.  If you want to look at photos of laces, both bobbin and needle, and see some good photos of structure, the 2 books by Cynthia Voysey - Bobbin lace in photographs and Needle lace in photographs, are good ones to borrow too.

If you're in the Pacific NW, the Lace Arts Council for Education is based here, and they have the handy dandy pocket reference I suggested. 

If you are wanting to learn, and are a member of IOLI, you also can borrow the lace study boxes.  They are a fabulous resource, and have a huge selection of laces that have labels and notes with them.  It would allow you to compare your pieces to documented pieces and learn the characteristics of the laces you have.  IOLI also has a CD of the Eunice Sein Koon collection on CD, and it's got a list of the laces that accompanies it.  That might help you too. 

Enjoy your exploration.

-Helen


Helen,

Thank you so much!! Wow, you are so knowledgeable, I want to thank you for sharing your knowledge and time. Have you been collecting and studying lace for long? Thank you also for all of the great books that you have recommended. I do have one that was my moms, Mrs. Bury Palliser History of Lace. I am not sure if you have ever heard of this book. My mom was a collector and dealer of fine lace and linens for many years and full of great information. She always tried to teach me as she left her collection to me when she passed away a few years ago. I so wish I had taken the time to listen and learn from her. I still cannot bring myself to look at or hold all that she left to me. I purchased 2 large containers of wonderful lace from a dealer several months ago. I have been trying to learn and research all that was in her collection. I am so happy that I found this site and all of the wonderful people on it. I am also still amazed with the condition of this lace collar, its is in wonderful condition for its age, I am sure it has to be pretty old. I am not sure what ILL stands for. Thank you again. I hope your are enjoying your Sunday.

Lorene


Helen Bell said:

Wow!  Spectacular collar :-)

Looks like a mixed lace - Brussels duchesse, with needlelace details in the big ovals.  The needle lace parts would be worked by 1 or more workers.  Someone probably worked the little buttonhole rings, called couronnes, and someone else worked the ground/net, and so forth, with another person being the joiner and putting that with the bobbin lace pieces.

Again:  Elizabeth Kurella's books, and the LACE book are great resources.  Another neat little book - it's an older publication, but I knew the author, and she was a very knowledgeable collector, is Gabriele de Mestre Pond's book on lace ID.  2 other books to consult are Lace: a guide to identifying old lace types and techniques by Heather Toomer, and Santina Levey's Lace: a history. Pat Earnshaw has an excellent book out on lace ID and history, as does Ann Collier. 

Again, if you want to borrow the books, check your local lace group, or IOLI (if you're a member) for their library holdings, as well as your local public library can help you locate them on ILL.  If they can't help you locate them, contact me, and I will help you locate them in the public library system, so you can make ILL requests.

Helen

Although you can certainly use it as a collar, it looks like a handkerchief edging to me.


Wow...

Thank you so much Helen. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge on both lace and the reading material. I to noticed a lot of differences in the book that I have compared to things that I have read on the internet. Thank you also for explaining the ILL library. I do think joining the IOLI as a member would be a really good idea. I so much appreciate all of your help.

Lorene
Helen Bell said:



Lorene said:

I've been making lace for a smidge over 40 years, and have learnt a lot along the way from some very good Collectors and teachers as I've collected pieces and also photographed old pieces and studied them.  Machine laces are not my forte, though.

ILL is Inter Library Loan.  It's a system amongst the libraries whereby a patron can borrow a book from a library outside of their own public library system, sometimes for free, sometimes there is a small charge, depending on the lending library and borrowing library.

Yes, I know Mrs Palliser's book quite well.  Generally speaking it's OK, but we know more now, and there are some things that are now disputed.  You can't go wrong with the Pat Earnshaw books, nor the other references I gave you.  If you want to look at photos of laces, both bobbin and needle, and see some good photos of structure, the 2 books by Cynthia Voysey - Bobbin lace in photographs and Needle lace in photographs, are good ones to borrow too.

If you're in the Pacific NW, the Lace Arts Council for Education is based here, and they have the handy dandy pocket reference I suggested. 

If you are wanting to learn, and are a member of IOLI, you also can borrow the lace study boxes.  They are a fabulous resource, and have a huge selection of laces that have labels and notes with them.  It would allow you to compare your pieces to documented pieces and learn the characteristics of the laces you have.  IOLI also has a CD of the Eunice Sein Koon collection on CD, and it's got a list of the laces that accompanies it.  That might help you too. 

Enjoy your exploration.

-Helen


Helen,

Thank you so much!! Wow, you are so knowledgeable, I want to thank you for sharing your knowledge and time. Have you been collecting and studying lace for long? Thank you also for all of the great books that you have recommended. I do have one that was my moms, Mrs. Bury Palliser History of Lace. I am not sure if you have ever heard of this book. My mom was a collector and dealer of fine lace and linens for many years and full of great information. She always tried to teach me as she left her collection to me when she passed away a few years ago. I so wish I had taken the time to listen and learn from her. I still cannot bring myself to look at or hold all that she left to me. I purchased 2 large containers of wonderful lace from a dealer several months ago. I have been trying to learn and research all that was in her collection. I am so happy that I found this site and all of the wonderful people on it. I am also still amazed with the condition of this lace collar, its is in wonderful condition for its age, I am sure it has to be pretty old. I am not sure what ILL stands for. Thank you again. I hope your are enjoying your Sunday.

Lorene


Helen Bell said:

Wow!  Spectacular collar :-)

Looks like a mixed lace - Brussels duchesse, with needlelace details in the big ovals.  The needle lace parts would be worked by 1 or more workers.  Someone probably worked the little buttonhole rings, called couronnes, and someone else worked the ground/net, and so forth, with another person being the joiner and putting that with the bobbin lace pieces.

Again:  Elizabeth Kurella's books, and the LACE book are great resources.  Another neat little book - it's an older publication, but I knew the author, and she was a very knowledgeable collector, is Gabriele de Mestre Pond's book on lace ID.  2 other books to consult are Lace: a guide to identifying old lace types and techniques by Heather Toomer, and Santina Levey's Lace: a history. Pat Earnshaw has an excellent book out on lace ID and history, as does Ann Collier. 

Again, if you want to borrow the books, check your local lace group, or IOLI (if you're a member) for their library holdings, as well as your local public library can help you locate them on ILL.  If they can't help you locate them, contact me, and I will help you locate them in the public library system, so you can make ILL requests.

Helen


Thank you so much Devon.. you know I think you are right. I was wondering why it had such an odd shape. Would this normally have been attached to the center after the lace was finished? Thank you for your help and input.

Lorene
Devon Thein said:

Although you can certainly use it as a collar, it looks like a handkerchief edging to me.
Yes, it would be attached after the lace was finished, often using very beautiful hand joining techniques.

I agree with Helen. This is a Duchesse bobbin lace, of a kind often called "Brussels Duchesse", meaning that it has needle lace elements added. This kind dates from the last half of the 19th century, and into the early 20th C.

The pink line shows how a leaf or petal was made in 2 parts, up one side then down the other. The openwork in the center of each petal is where the weaver pair from one side was hooked into the weaver loop on the other side.

The red line shows where a thick thread called "gimp" was used to outline each motif -- to help it stand out more.

The green lines are parallel to what we call "raised work". In this case it is a bundle of threads moved from one part of the lace to another. It is basically a functional element (serving a purpose), but it also is decorative.

Lorelei

This photo has the needle lace elements.

The motifs in the blue rings and green rings are needle made elements.

The yellow rectangles show a needle made ground -- twisted buttonhole stitch.

The element inside the orange is also needle made.

Basically everything to the left of the curved lavender line is needle made.

Lorelei

Some similar needle lace elements.

one            two                 

http://lynxlace.com/StitchesofPointdeGaze.html

http://needlelacetalk.ning.com/photo/albums/point-de-gaze-antique

P.S.

I also have Paliser. But her book is very old, and while she was trying to be a scholar, I don't think her information is really useful. I would just leave it on the shelf.

I bought a copy of Levey's LACE when it first came out and have used it ever since. I have heard that Toomer is good, but can't say if it is true, since I haven't seen her book.

Start with the online information that I have collected. Look at the opening page of the HISTORY-IDENTIFICATION group, under the icons that represent group members. There is a link to ONLINE RESOURCES. Those are ones that I think have accurate information. I'm sorry to say that there is a lot of junk on the internet, but I think those are reliable.

Lorelei

Thank you sooo much! Wow you have tons of knowledge. Thank you again for all of your help and information, I love all of the links that you shared. And I can't thank you enough for showing me the different stitches, what a learning experience! I hope your having a wonderful day!

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