Please, has anyone determined for sure what stitches and connection methods were used in bobbin lace in the 16th Century?  Did they ever just twist the thread rather than plait it?  And did they use sewings?  I am a little confused because of differing instructions in books on modern reconstructions.

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Regarding permission to post an IOLI article here: I am not an officer of IOLI. They just pay our hosting fee. I think permission would have to come from someone currently an IOLI officer, but I'm not sure who. Possibly the Bulletin editor.

Kimberley

What can you tell us about this difference in scale that you refer to?

Kim, that is about what Gil discussed with me at the 2019 Convention, except we didn't talk about how the woodcut patterns were shared with the lacemakers.  I pleaded with her for information when I was in her braid and plaits class since I lost out on her 15th and 16th Century Lace Class due to it being overfull.  She did give us a taste of working off graph paper without drawing a pattern on it in the lace braids class.

I also have tried making lace using the lines on pillow ticking as my only guides, which works for me for basic straight tape lace.

Being cognizant of the fact that bobbin lacemaking was very much a craft by the poor for the rich (the name of a very interesting website) and books were definitely for the very well off at the time, but having no idea just how rare copies of the early woodcut patterns would have been for even the lace mistresses or pattern teachers to have seen them, I have to wonder if some of the lace teachers were among this visual artists who can replicate something only seen but not in hand.

I am sorry for your losses.  There is never a right time to lose a parent nor mentors and friends.  It is appropriate for the times we are currently in to pass on the valuable information gathered from those lost to maintain the knowledge they have shared in their honor.  There are new people coming to the craft at this time when they are being forced by circumstances or finally have a moment to delve into something like lacemaking they were curious about but didn't "have time" for.

No one really knows how many copies of the books there were at this time.  I am not sure how much you know about book binding, but you did not buy bound books as we do now.  They were sold in folios at that time.  Since that word has several meanings, if you are not familiar I would recommend this quick bit on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folio

People would have the folio sized sheets cut and bound as they wished.  For this reason, pages could wind up anywhere.  There are a few libraries that have old copies, but there are differences between each.  One is in France and I am hoping to pay it a visit one day.  We were planning to go to Paris for my daughter's 16th birthday, but it is likely we will not be able to travel because of the virus.  On the other hand, maybe we will be immune and be one of the early ones to venture out.  You never know, it could be a very good travel deal  In any case, people sometimes traded for folio sheets and might not even acquire an entire book.  I do not have a lot of knowledge on medieval books, and it is a topic of study all on its own.  I am also very curious to see if there are any pages surviving in some of the old household books or things of that nature.  I know some wonderful loop braiding patterns have been found this way.   I am planning to pose this question to the site when it is up, and invite people to post findings.

Kim

Lorelei,

       I will be in my lace room shortly and will try to find the article I was referring to.  In a nutshell, the laces from England were in much finer thread and on a smaller scale than the Italian ones.  The English ones were on personal garments as things such as a cap edging.  The Italian ones are considerably larger and in heavier thread.  If I had to put a number on it from memory I would say the English ones were about 1/3 of the Italian.  But, I should look up the specifics.  The Italian ones were used for house furnishings and what not, especially during the revival period, and could get considerably larger.

Kim

Lorelei Halley Administrator said:

Kimberley

What can you tell us about this difference in scale that you refer to?

Ok, I will check into it.  I am on the board and can go through appropriate channels that way.

Thanks, Kim

Lorelei Halley Administrator said:

Regarding permission to post an IOLI article here: I am not an officer of IOLI. They just pay our hosting fee. I think permission would have to come from someone currently an IOLI officer, but I'm not sure who. Possibly the Bulletin editor.

Kim, I do know about folios, mostly in relation to literature.  It never occurred to me that there would be folios of the lace woodcuts.  Could you imagine strolling through the Paris flea market and finding an original folio page of woodcut lace patterns from LePompe?  (I know, the dealers would know perfectly well what they had, and price accordingly, but we can dream).

It certainly would be wonderful to go to the museums and state libraries in Europe and see the originals from the peiod, both books and lace.  As you would qualify as an expert and be doing research for your classes and books, they would probably allow you to see things that are not on public display.

Hopefully, this virus mess that the world is in will get controlled sooner than later and you will be able to get there with your family in safety.



Kimberly Davis said:

No one really knows how many copies of the books there were at this time.  I am not sure how much you know about book binding, but you did not buy bound books as we do now.  They were sold in folios at that time.  Since that word has several meanings, if you are not familiar I would recommend this quick bit on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folio

People would have the folio sized sheets cut and bound as they wished.  For this reason, pages could wind up anywhere.  There are a few libraries that have old copies, but there are differences between each.  One is in France and I am hoping to pay it a visit one day.  We were planning to go to Paris for my daughter's 16th birthday, but it is likely we will not be able to travel because of the virus.  On the other hand, maybe we will be immune and be one of the early ones to venture out.  You never know, it could be a very good travel deal  In any case, people sometimes traded for folio sheets and might not even acquire an entire book.  I do not have a lot of knowledge on medieval books, and it is a topic of study all on its own.  I am also very curious to see if there are any pages surviving in some of the old household books or things of that nature.  I know some wonderful loop braiding patterns have been found this way.   I am planning to pose this question to the site when it is up, and invite people to post findings.

Kim

The piece I had in my memory was not the piece Gil and I discovered was a different size.  I was remembering Book 2, The Isham Samples, page 34-35.  This is actually a small piece I was showing her from a collection we were given.  It turns out there is a sample of what we believe to be the same piece owned by The Lace Guild.  I will have to do a bit more poking around to find the other piece I was thinking of.  This also made a transatlantic connection, but for a reason other than size!


Kim

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