Hi, I'm new to lace making, started in the winter. I am getting fairly comfortable with the basic motifs but I am still having trouble deciding how to start a piece.

I saved a pricking from Raquel Adsuar's facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/videotutorialesadsuar/) after having watched some of her videos on youtube (even though I don't speak or understand spanish). The pricking is a fairly simple bookmark to practice spider variations. I have attatched the top.

I can't figure out how to start. I thought I needed 36 pairs, but then I thought I needed a footside on each side which would require at least one more pair on each side? So then I had 6 pairs hanging on the middle pin and it was very soon a "dog's breakfast" as my mother used to say. 

Any suggestions how to go about this?

Thanks,

Dawn

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Dawn

Do you have a photo of the lace itself? The beginning part especially. I can show you diagrams of several ways of starting a bookmark, but this one, with the zigzag lines along the edges, suggests some kind of cloth stitch edge. If I had a picture I could figure out what the designer intended.

Here is the starting diagram for a very simple bookmark, simpler than yours.

  At the top pin hang on 2 pairs. At every other pin along the diagonal lines at the start hang on one pair.

Your diagrams are SO good, Lorelei!  I love them

Dawn, Welcome to the most addictive world you will ever meet!!!!!!!!!!!  There are so many types of lace, and made in various ways - bobbins, needle, shuttle, etc, that there is always something new, - and with the internet and this site (and the matching needlelace site) you will find so many ways of achieving the same outcome, - just various different ways of getting there!!!!!  Sit back and enjoy the ride!!!!!!!!!!

Without a picture of the lace, it is hard to give good instructions, but usually I hang on 2 pairs at the top pin, and add one pair each edge pin, as I work it, until I have enough .  Can you show us the pricking or better still a picture of the completed piece, then we can help you further.

My solution is this:

There are two pairs at the point. I've added 4 more pinholes for the passives (grey), which will make it easier (I hope) to see what pair does what, and also the 'pull' of the threads will go in the right direction from the start

A lot of the pairs start in the middle of the lace rather than the edge. This may be non-standard, but I hope makes it a bit easier to work, since the top is worked exactly the same as the sides, with the same number of passives. It's not hard to start a pair in the middle of the lace, except you have to hang the pair from a pin, then use the same pin in the stitch! You can't use starting pins (temporary pins just for hanging pairs from) as they would be in the way. So - hang the (pale blue) pair from the pin, then work the workers across the new pair, then hook the threads of the workers round the back of the pin, and tighten carefully. Then work the workers back again.

There are general principles for figuring out a start.

1) draw all the lines of thread that you DO understand, near the start,  and mark on them which direction they travel in. Look at each pin. If there are two pairs going into, and two pairs leaving a pin, then that's part of the normal working of the lace. If there are two pairs leaving, but only one, or none, going into the pin, then you need to start one (or two) pairs at this point.

2) I find it helpful to add extra starting pins for passives. As you say, too many pairs starting at a pin can be messy!

3) But the principle I tend to use is to actually start working the lace, from the top. At each pin, I think, do I have enough pairs to work this stitch? If not, start another pair here! That will start ANY pattern for you, although possibly in an unconventional way....

No, there is no photo...a sort of a challenge I guess.

Administrator said:

Dawn

Do you have a photo of the lace itself? The beginning part especially. I can show you diagrams of several ways of starting a bookmark, but this one, with the zigzag lines along the edges, suggests some kind of cloth stitch edge. If I had a picture I could figure out what the designer intended.

Here is the starting diagram for a very simple bookmark, simpler than yours.

  At the top pin hang on 2 pairs. At every other pin along the diagonal lines at the start hang on one pair.

I can't see how to add the light blue pairs after the green thread pins are in. I would have to use a crochet hook to "connect" them?

Jo Edkins said:

My solution is this:

There are two pairs at the point. I've added 4 more pinholes for the passives (grey), which will make it easier (I hope) to see what pair does what, and also the 'pull' of the threads will go in the right direction from the start

A lot of the pairs start in the middle of the lace rather than the edge. This may be non-standard, but I hope makes it a bit easier to work, since the top is worked exactly the same as the sides, with the same number of passives. It's not hard to start a pair in the middle of the lace, except you have to hang the pair from a pin, then use the same pin in the stitch! You can't use starting pins (temporary pins just for hanging pairs from) as they would be in the way. So - hang the (pale blue) pair from the pin, then work the workers across the new pair, then hook the threads of the workers round the back of the pin, and tighten carefully. Then work the workers back again.

There are general principles for figuring out a start.

1) draw all the lines of thread that you DO understand, near the start,  and mark on them which direction they travel in. Look at each pin. If there are two pairs going into, and two pairs leaving a pin, then that's part of the normal working of the lace. If there are two pairs leaving, but only one, or none, going into the pin, then you need to start one (or two) pairs at this point.

2) I find it helpful to add extra starting pins for passives. As you say, too many pairs starting at a pin can be messy!

3) But the principle I tend to use is to actually start working the lace, from the top. At each pin, I think, do I have enough pairs to work this stitch? If not, start another pair here! That will start ANY pattern for you, although possibly in an unconventional way....

No, you just add them at that point. You put the pin in at that point, and hang the light blue pair from it. There is a worker pair coming in from the edge, so you work it across the new (light blue) pair as well as the existing passives. Then you should really put a pin in between the workers and the new light blue pair, but you can't, because the pin is already there, and the light blue pair is hanging from it! So, instead, after the stitch, you loop both threads of the worker pair round the back of the pin. That will mean that the pin ends up (more or less) between the workers and the new pair. The workers are now on the inside of the new pair (and the rest of the passives), so you work them back across new pair + passives as the next row. Then the light blue pair can leave the this densely worked area to join he middle of the lace. The whole thing is really exactly the same as the rest of the lace, except the new pair starts from this point rather than entering it from the rest of the lace - and the "looping round the back of the pin" business. But that doesn't need a crochet hook. The pin is there, and the head of the pin is free, so just loop the threads over! No poking a crochet hook through is needed!



Dawn Ellis said:

I can't see how to add the light blue pairs after the green thread pins are in. I would have to use a crochet hook to "connect" them?

Jo Edkins said:

No, you just add them at that point. You put the pin in at that point, and hang the light blue pair from it. There is a worker pair coming in from the edge, so you work it across the new (light blue) pair as well as the existing passives. Then you should really put a pin in between the workers and the new light blue pair, but you can't, because the pin is already there, and the light blue pair is hanging from it! So, instead, after the stitch, you loop both threads of the worker pair round the back of the pin. That will mean that the pin ends up (more or less) between the workers and the new pair. The workers are now on the inside of the new pair (and the rest of the passives), so you work them back across new pair + passives as the next row. Then the light blue pair can leave the this densely worked area to join he middle of the lace. The whole thing is really exactly the same as the rest of the lace, except the new pair starts from this point rather than entering it from the rest of the lace - and the "looping round the back of the pin" business. But that doesn't need a crochet hook. The pin is there, and the head of the pin is free, so just loop the threads over! No poking a crochet hook through is needed!

My solution is this:

There are two pairs at the point. I've added 4 more pinholes for the passives (grey), which will make it easier (I hope) to see what pair does what, and also the 'pull' of the threads will go in the right direction from the start

A lot of the pairs start in the middle of the lace rather than the edge. This may be non-standard, but I hope makes it a bit easier to work, since the top is worked exactly the same as the sides, with the same number of passives. It's not hard to start a pair in the middle of the lace, except you have to hang the pair from a pin, then use the same pin in the stitch! You can't use starting pins (temporary pins just for hanging pairs from) as they would be in the way. So - hang the (pale blue) pair from the pin, then work the workers across the new pair, then hook the threads of the workers round the back of the pin, and tighten carefully. Then work the workers back again.

There are general principles for figuring out a start.

1) draw all the lines of thread that you DO understand, near the start,  and mark on them which direction they travel in. Look at each pin. If there are two pairs going into, and two pairs leaving a pin, then that's part of the normal working of the lace. If there are two pairs leaving, but only one, or none, going into the pin, then you need to start one (or two) pairs at this point.

2) I find it helpful to add extra starting pins for passives. As you say, too many pairs starting at a pin can be messy!

3) But the principle I tend to use is to actually start working the lace, from the top. At each pin, I think, do I have enough pairs to work this stitch? If not, start another pair here! That will start ANY pattern for you, although possibly in an unconventional way....

Dawn,
I used to be part of this group, could you please show us the whole pricking? Thanks a lot.

Ok, I will try...



Jo Edkins said:

No, you just add them at that point. You put the pin in at that point, and hang the light blue pair from it. There is a worker pair coming in from the edge, so you work it across the new (light blue) pair as well as the existing passives. Then you should really put a pin in between the workers and the new light blue pair, but you can't, because the pin is already there, and the light blue pair is hanging from it! So, instead, after the stitch, you loop both threads of the worker pair round the back of the pin. That will mean that the pin ends up (more or less) between the workers and the new pair. The workers are now on the inside of the new pair (and the rest of the passives), so you work them back across new pair + passives as the next row. Then the light blue pair can leave the this densely worked area to join he middle of the lace. The whole thing is really exactly the same as the rest of the lace, except the new pair starts from this point rather than entering it from the rest of the lace - and the "looping round the back of the pin" business. But that doesn't need a crochet hook. The pin is there, and the head of the pin is free, so just loop the threads over! No poking a crochet hook through is needed!

Jo

great diagram!

Here's  the beginning ...

Thank you Jo.

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