two old laces - handmade perhaps?

[deborah greenfield]

Hello,

Here are photos of an old silk black lace that I haven't come across before. I thought initially it was machine but looking at the close up I wonder if it might be handmade..?? Any thoughts anyone and any ideas of type? Then there's an antique Honiton (I think) collar? To me even the tape itself looks handmade but I don't have the eye you do. 

Thanking you very much, Deborah

[Lorelei Halley Administrator]

The lace you have named as "Honiton" is Honiton, I think. It is from the years around 1900. A type called "slugs and snails". Some Honiton of that time period was made with poorly defined patterns and rather sloppy workmanship (both of which flaws this piece displays).

The black lace is machine lace. The close-up photo shows ridges in the dense areas. Handmade lace would look smooth, like woven cloth.

The most common black bobbin laces of the 19th century were Chantilly and LePuy guipure. These 2 pinterest pages include laces of those types, for comparison purposes.

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/pointgroundbobbinlace/ 

https://www.pinterest.com/lynxlacelady/cluny-lepuy-continental-guip... 

Lorelei

Lorelei

[Nancy A. Neff]

Lorelei,

If that's Honiton, then it's hardly even "slugs and snails". This is an example of that style IMO, showing a clear 'snail':

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/544794886163238756/

I admit, however, that I don't know what else it could be, so I'll defer to your id! :-)

Nancy

[deborah greenfield]

Thanks so much Lorelei - very helpful as always!

[Lorelei Halley Administrator]

Nancy, I think your example is better than most "'slugs n snails". Here are some of mine. But you are right, Deborah's piece  is unusually poor in design, even for "slugs n snails". I can't really call it tape lace (braid lace), although that is largely what it has -- circular tapes filled with tally fillings.  If it isn't slugs n snails Honiton, I don't know what else to call it.

Nancy A. Neff said:

Lorelei,

If that's Honiton, then it's hardly even "slugs and snails". This is an example of that style IMO, showing a clear 'snail':

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/544794886163238756/

I admit, however, that I don't know what else it could be, so I'll defer to your id! :-)

Nancy